Yesterday at the end of our time I posed the question: "Can we do church without the Speaking, Teaching, & Preaching and only with true Jesus-like training?"
While no one stood up and said: "Pheaney you're a heretic for even suggesting that!"... I did get the vibe that most of us would have answered that question with a 'negative'... "We need STP AND Training" is what I was sensing.
Let me ask specifically about preaching. (Because in any group setting of any size there will be Speaking... and Teaching can most easily be switched to Jesus-like training.) But what is Preaching?
I followed up with this question: "So do we need a weekly sermon?" I immediately was given a round of "No's"...
So here is the million dollar question I've been thinking about all night... (And I'm up at 7AM posting)... What is the Biblical preaching that we NEED to do? How is that separated from the weekly sermon we currently do in America?
(If I misrepresented anything in our interactions please call me out!)
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5 comments:
Pheaney, good thoughts. To answer your question we'll have to think outside the box. The american church thinking has to change. I'll give this much thought and get back to you on this.Paul
It was a good question (and still is mind you). I would say that we can certainly have the church without "preaching". According to the Enhanced Strong's Greek-English Lexicon the word used for "preach" in Matt. 3:15 is defined as -
κηρύσσω [kerusso /kay·roos·so/] v. Of uncertain affinity; TDNT 3:697; TDNTA 430; GK 3062; 61 occurrences; AV translates as “preach” 51 times, “publish” five times, “proclaim” twice, “preached + 2258” twice, and “preacher” once. 1 to be a herald, to officiate as a herald. 1a to proclaim after the manner of a herald. 1b always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed. 2 to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done. 3 used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers.
I think your question get to the heart of what is preaching. I would say that to be "church" the presence of preaching AS WE CURRENTLY KNOW IT is not necessary. However, the descriptive that stands out to me from the definition of the Greek word used for "preach" is found in definition 1b which says "always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed". I would argue that the element missing in today's preaching compared to the above definition is authoriy and obidience. First off, today's preaching is coming from under who's authority? That of God or that of the slick "preacher". Secondly, if hands-on appliciation and experience is one thing that seperates "training" from "teaching/preaching" then the obidience part in the above definition carries some weight. The Greek idea of preaching involved it coming from and under the authority of God. Therefore, it was understood by the "listeners" that is should and would be obeyed (hands-on applicaion and experience). I would argue that preaching as we know it today does not necissarily follow the definition of the greek word used here. Preaching today does not necessarily come from and under the authority of God and therefore it certainly is not readily "obeyed". Therefore, "church" today can be present without "today's" preaching.
Great questions. First as for your round of "No's," for the need of a weekly sermon. I personally don't remember saying anything. I needed to process slower than that. So take that I called you out. Just Kidding. Anyway.
Second, Paul, not sure who you are please ID, yourself. Love that you are part of the conversation, but no open ID's. And Cary, I know you, you need to create a blog ID.
Now I will add what I've been thinking and such. Loved Cary's work on the word "preaching. I would totally agree with 1b. When you say "it's missing," who's job is it to make sure it's not missing? It's there hearer's job. James 1: 22, we are to be doers of the word. That's my job as a hearer of the word. So if someone brings the word of God to me, in a STP or Training session, it's my job to put it into practice, to "do what it says." So if I hear it once a week on Sunday or dig in on my own everyday of the week, I'm to be applying it to my life.
If I preach a sermon on Sunday, and I and you don't put it into practice than that is both our faults. I'm not accountable for you not doing something with it. You are. And I for myself.
Do we need to listen to preaching. Well if Jesus preached, and people listened. Then yes we need to listen to preaching. We each need to examine the scripture and see if it is truth. Then we need to put it into practice.
I have more thoughts, but will reserve them for later.
Just a quick thought as I try to wrap up my own preaching preps for the weekend. It's been awhile since I've read through the book of Acts, but it's still my favorite book...
2 (possible) insights:
Acts shows us the power of "the Word proclaimed." God clearly uses the proclamation of the Good News of Christ crucified and resurrected to win souls for the Kingdom. I, for one, believe that we still need this kind of proclamation in the Church/world today. (Where would the world be without its Billy Grahams?)
Acts 2 also tells us that the earliest believers "were devoted to the apostles' teaching." So the early church had worship...and it had teaching. I presume that this teaching included a retelling of the stories of Jesus and that it included the call to obedience you guys have alluded to. (How could my wife live without Beth Moore?)
That such teaching and proclamation would have been followed by sincere mentoring/training does not proclude the need for the teaching and preaching, it simply helps us see that teaching and preaching lose their effectiveness without the third (or fourth) leg of the chair which is the training element. (Yeah, Bill ALlison!!!)
WOW... very rich discussion... from ALL of you. We're missing Dan insights... hopefully he will bless us all with the correct answers. ; ) (Note to Kyle: I think the "Paul" who commented is our PALC Paul.)
As I look at all of the comments... I feel like we are wrestling with something extremely important in terms of ministry strategy... with the BIG question being: How do we really make the most of our short lives for the glory of God? To this end, our strategy is CRITICALLY important. The life/ministry strategy we live by will either take us to the goal of making the most of our short lives for the glory of God... or simply keep us busy in the current Christian culture's strategy... with great potential for leaving our greatest heart's desire (making the most of our short lives for the glory of God) unfulfilled. Hence, strategy is everything because it either takes us toward our desired goal... or simply keeps us busying running in good circles... not ever getting to God's best.
More on strategy on 3/24.
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